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Topic: Pente - Understand vs Memorize
Replies: 122   Views: 183,802   Pages: 9   Last Post: Nov 17, 2010, 10:26 AM by: zoeyk

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jasonb

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Re: Pente - Understand vs Memorize
Posted: Nov 17, 2010, 4:15 AM

Wow, I am sorry for any part I played in starting this argument.

Zoey,
I agree, the keystone thing was just a misunderstanding between you and I. Enough said about that.

As far as initiative, I understand there are multiple types of initiative, that you have defined in other Analysis forums. I also get that the term has different meanings to different people; for that reason, I was stating the meaning it has for me to further clarify my interpretation of up2ng's description of tempo. I've heard the term tempo quite a bit lately, but never understood what it means. I was just trying to ensure I was grasping the concept.

I'm not sure what to do about using the term initiative in the future. If it offends you, then perhaps I'll switch to a more basic word, like "control". I respect your opinion, the knowledge you share, and I can relate to your zeal for the game. No hard feelings please.


zoeyk

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Re: Pente - Understand vs Memorize
Posted: Nov 17, 2010, 10:12 AM

no it is not your fault jason. you are a good guy who means well.
my frustration stems from something more in general.
back in the initiative thread it was a long drawn out discussion over some very small simple points. it was like pulling teeth. with multiple people opposing from both sides of the argument about what is the correct definition and usage of initiative. in the end, we came to no agreement, like spinning wheels and going no where.
it felt like a waste of time, yet something that still needs to be settled. the thread has been sitting idle for a while, waiting to be gone back into again. i needed to take a break from that one for a bit. but i feel its almost time to go back at it, which i don't look forward to.

and i have no issues with you jason, its not your fault that people can't agree on term usage thus leaving you at a loss as to which way to go on the word.

hopefully we will have this settled soon and have a universal agreed upon usage. i truly hope so.


in the mean time, for generic usage,

forcing moves, whether winning or losing, can simply be "forcing move(s)". this can only be used for dynamic positions or dynamic continuations.

being in a winning position whether forcing or not forcing, can be having the "winning lead" or "winning position". this can be used for both static and dynamic positions.

these are just temporary go to terms thats optional, that i have no problems with, until the real terms get settled.

you don't have to use these terms. you can use any you wish. its just, some words you chose may end up having me not understand what you mean, or maybe even have me thinking that you dont understand what you mean. which is very not productive if talking pente stuff with me, and visa versa.


and, if your goina use your term of "control", does it imply forcing moves? does it imply sure win? youll need to define this term so i can be on the same page as you.


up2ng says,
initiative implies forcing moves and sure win.

zoeyk, and nosovs, and chess theory say,
initiative just means forcing moves, sure win is Not implied.

this is the difference of usage that we need to settle.

becuase forcing moves don't define how neck and neck or how far apart the opposing forces are at given positions, and dont explain who is winning while the forces are happening, the term tempo comes in to shed light on detailed fluxuating values, like showing the fluxuation of how close or far two runners are to each other during a race to a finish line whether one runner is ahead the whole time or not.




z

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
zoeyk

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Re: Pente - Understand vs Memorize
Posted: Nov 17, 2010, 10:26 AM

to up2ng;

i value you as a player, and as a contributor in the forums, and as a active admin. and i don't think you try to ruffle my feathers. it just happens sometimes, but thats ok.


and,
when we dive into this subject (of keystones and initiative) coming up here in the near future, i will be sighting my sources, i hope you will be prepared to do the same. i honestly believe you would not lie to me, but sources being sited i think are important here, simply because the human's mind of recollection can be fallible. i remember some one else became offended and told me that they didn't need to site sources, because they are their own source of their memory of something from years back, ext.. you probably know who i mean, and i hope i wont get a similar reaction from you in requesting such. thanks.

z

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Replies: 122   Views: 183,802   Pages: 9   [ Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ]
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