Home » Forum Home » Analysis

Topic: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Replies: 14   Views: 19,871   Pages: 1   Last Post: Oct 13, 2009, 3:52 AM by: zoeyk

Search Forum

Back to Topic List Topics: [ Previous | Next ]
Replies: 14   Views: 19,871   Pages: 1  
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Oct 18, 2008, 5:34 AM

I think most players would agree that of the four stone formations which threaten Pente on the next move, the rarely occuring xx_xx is the weakest, primarily due to the fact a block at _ often will not only neutralize the threat, but also can lead to one or more captures. Nonetheless, this formation should remain in the tool box, since it shares common strengths with its stronger and more easily formed relative x_xxx.
Both of these formations will often lead to wins through a double keystone pair capture or a winning 4/3 formation, but sometimes one or the other will seem preferable due to the other stones in play. Occasionally, a position could theoretically come up where xx_xx would win but x_xxx would lose, though so far I don't have any good game examples of that (feel free to add any you may know of).

Below are a couple of games and positions where I would prefer xx_xx over x_xxx due to a shorter/clearer win.
Example #1

wins more quickly

Example #2

clearer win from the position @ 18.) __ H8 with 19.)N5 than with 19.)H10

An additional feature (which I've only seen come up in puzzles) of xx_xx would be the potential to force a capture(s) and then win either by how that opened up the board (usually through captures, I believe) or by being able to maintain momentum via the last stone played despite the sacrifice of the pair.

ETA: I almost forgot that I used this formation in probably my best ever real time game (based on rating boost, anyway); it wins this one more quickly than x_xxx would have.




Message was edited by: watsu at Oct 18, 2008 8:30 AM


I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney


watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Oct 26, 2008, 1:03 PM

I don't want to spoil anyone's puzzling fun, so I'll just say that I think I've found a game based puzzle where the only way to win may be (I'm not positive) through using the xx_xx shape. So, if you aren't interested in solving puzzles but are interested in this shape, let me know and I'll send you the link. Otherwise, I don't want to spoil a good puzzle with a hint, so I won't point in any particular direction with this post; you'll have to encounter it on your own.

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Nov 24, 2008, 12:23 PM

Here's a game I finished recently where I think the only winning move for P2 at the end (move 14) was to form the xx_xx shape:


I guess a possible variant way to win might be with forcing black moves of H11,L11,H9,H9,H9,H13 etc., but that also involves making the form as well...


Message was edited by: watsu at Nov 24, 2008 6:23 AM


I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
zoeyk

Posts: 2,007
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 42
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Dec 4, 2008, 2:35 PM

well,...top this,..it took me "two" split 4's to win!




Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Dec 5, 2008, 2:31 AM

very nice

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Dec 17, 2008, 3:10 AM

Here's another example from a game I'm just finishing up "elsewhere"... the formation wins by forcing pair creations




I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Jan 5, 2009, 5:20 AM

This was a tough win- I didn't see it as a definite thing until right at the end, but I had a pretty good idea of how things might be forced after my move 18. Pair jeopardy made it appear to me as though the split 4 formation was the way to finish here...



I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
zoeyk

Posts: 2,007
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 42
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Jan 8, 2009, 12:19 PM




Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
dipstick

Posts: 1
Registered: Jan 26, 2009
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Feb 25, 2009, 10:56 PM

i,m new at this game.iget beat in every game.can you help me a little thanks.

zoeyk

Posts: 2,007
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 42
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Feb 26, 2009, 12:03 AM

start by learning whites opening moves.
whites seconds and whites thirds.

they will vary depending on blacks first and second moves.

learning whites first moves is easy. as black only has about 12 good first moves to answer, so whites seconds are only 12 moves to learn.

the complex memorization comes when black makes a second move. every one of blacks 12 firsts can have a average of 30 seconds for each. each one demands a special white 3rd to answer.

so where whites second is 12 moves to learn,....
whites 3rds are 360 moves to learn based on a average.

for more questions on opening moves you can private message me, or consult the Data Base located on the homepage. to see answers ive done, or other master players, simply put my name or others names into the filter search criteria. Ie,.Player 1 zoeyk.

there is a thread discussing some of these...

go here to see,...scroll down to the very last post at bottom. the one written in blue text. my post there might help some.

http://pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=27&threadID=4043&start=15&tstart=0.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Jul 18, 2009, 3:13 AM



White had a winning line @ 13 with J4, forcing a double keystone capture by making the split four formation...
If white fails to play this move @ 13 (playing as in the game shown) however, black could force by making a double keystone capture with G8 followed by J8...


Message was edited by: watsu at Jul 17, 2009 9:15 PM


I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
zoeyk

Posts: 2,007
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 42
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Jul 18, 2009, 10:34 AM

what if black played H4 on the 12th?


or better yet for player 2 on the 12th and going forward;

G8 12th <-extension to 4
J8 13th <-split 4
F10*cap 14th <-two fours open, by way of a split 4 cap trap.

Player 2 sure win at 12th




ide say whites mistake was on the 6th. L6 6th seems stronger for white.

now i havnt studied that white too much, because i wouldn't use it for one,...and i don't use the K8 P2 opening too much.

but,

ide say that whites second is suspect...

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Oct 8, 2009, 6:57 PM

A double keystone capture by black using this form for the win...



I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
up2ng

Posts: 542
Registered: May 9, 2002
From: Northeast USA
Age: 38
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Oct 9, 2009, 12:44 AM

Nice counter attack in the mid-game by black, eventually leading to the weak-4 and forcing the double keystone cap for the win.

Looks like white had a case of "fancy play syndrome" in this one. Easy win at 8. L7

zoeyk

Posts: 2,007
Registered: Mar 4, 2007
From: San Francisco
Age: 42
Home page
Re: Some features of the weakest potential Pente position
Posted: Oct 13, 2009, 3:52 AM

eeeeeek you posted that game. i feel ashamed of this game...
the less i play the rustier im getting, sigh. yes alex had a nice trap there, and i should had looked at it before pulling the silly 3x2 threat.

Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Replies: 14   Views: 19,871   Pages: 1  
Back to Topic List
Topics: [ Previous | Next ]


Powered by Jive Software