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zoeyk

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Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 3:35 AM

I would like to create a discussion about Adzi here. Adzi formally Aji, is a concept from Go, in Japan, which moved to Renju, and had its spelling changed to Adzi by Russians, due to how they pronounced it. To spell it phonetically. It then was brought to Pente by Alexander Nosovsky who was president of the International Renju Federation. Since the words birth in Japan and in its use in Go, I believe its meaning may have evolved by the time it got here. Perhaps because of different game, or because Russia simply wanted to expand its meanings into something more.

I will attempt to list out the basic rules of what I know. And then try to expand with examples. And then I would like to discuss further what adzi can mean in the hopes of gaining clarity on the things I have yet to understand about it.
_______________________

"don't capture opponent's stones, and keep your tempo in attacking. Continue; building winning combinations, or improving your position.
When you have no good idea of how to improve your position, then you can capture"

"Adzi - This is understanding of your own strategy, and ignoring atari , because of attacking opponent. Because when you capture - you lose temp. So , that is keeping temp of your own attack"

"Adzi is a part of initiative"

"Adzi is like a stone in your shoe when you are late. The stone hurts and you can't run as fast, but because you are late, you cannot stop to take it out."



Now from Japan as Aji:

Aji is an English loanword from Japanese that, in the context of go, roughly means: possibilities left in a position.
Many Go players hate this definition, as they say it is completely inaccurate as to what Aji really is. One guy tried to rename as funny business, and everyone hated that too.



Definition
The go definition of aji is derived from one of aji's ordinary usages as taste, in the sense that something that has taste lingers. As such, the go usage of aji refers to lingering possibilities left in a position. These possibilities are latent and usually cannot be used immediately, but rather may come to life at later points in the game. This is why aji is also often translated as potential.

A related term (that should not be confused with aji) is nerai, meaning: threat, aim, target, or follow-up.


Nuances of the Term
An exact definition for aji can be elusive because it is difficult to describe the concept succinctly without losing accuracy. For example, interpreting the phrase "possibilities left in a position" literally may give one the false impression that any empty corner, side, or even an empty board at the start of a game, is full of aji. Rendering the term as "potential" is likewise unsatisfactory, because this may be confused with "potential territory" or development.

In reality, the usage of aji in go, whether in the original Japanese or its adaptation in English, is much narrower. Typically, a position is said to contain aji only if:

It already contains one or more existing groups; and
At least one of the groups has a weakness or defect that the opponent might exploit later.
Another analogy that many people find apt is: Aji is like a stone in your shoe when you are late. The stone hurts, and as a result you can't run as fast. But because you are late, you cannot stop to take it out.

Ed Lee provides another translation for aji as: funny business or unfinished business. This idiomatic rendering covers the practical usage of aji without giving into the vagueness that some see attached to other definitions of aji, especially those referring to it as lingering (or latent) possibilities.

[edit]
Good and Bad Aji
Often, bad aji means your stones have bad shape. If you have a lot of bad aji, it can result in being bound hand and foot - in other words, not able to fight with full strength, because doing so might make the aji work for your opponent. Good aji, on the other hand, usually means your stones have good shape and little or no weakness.

Claiming territory with bad aji means that there are still many ways for your opponent to reduce or invade it. It has often to do with the fact that your surrounding position is thin. Doing so with good aji means the opposite.

Removing the aji you have against your opponent is a bad idea, and is called aji-keshi. Removing your own aji is good, but often incurs a loss of momentum. Doing so at the right time is called honte.


aji is an opponent's possibility, a weakness. It is a weakness or ineffectiveness of the stones that leaves a bad taste. In other words, you have achieved something but the shape of the stones is such that everything may turn upside down yet. A bad taste in the mouth.


And here is link where Go players have argument about the vague definition of Aji and also not liking funny business term either. Seems the concept has had a long history of vagueness and debate. An illusive word, or perhaps hard to translate to English. They can show actual examples of it. Meaning this, or that. But hard to nail down into words people can agree on. However here in pente, I feel nosovs has attempted to create a actual rule set, a protocol for it, even if still vague.
https://senseis.xmp.net/?topic=1906

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zoeyk

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 4:03 AM

In pente, I view it much different from Go.

I think one important concept, is P1 should do its best to avoid capturing black stones, especially in the beginning.

Which leads me to question the wedge and several other openings, which that will come later.

Player 1, should even offer material in some cases, offer pair to be captured, as a way to purchase momentum. A offering that often is a mistake for p2 to take.

In other cases, p1 should avoid being captured, and instead build to stop its pair from being captured. This is the case when p2 forces a choice, of capture trade or defend from capture. If p1 capture trades early, p1 has no adzi.

Which is why many strong players as p2 will do draw openings. Attempting to force or tempt a capture trade early in the game.

When p1 is successfully using adzi, often times it will be exemplified by the use of split 3s. Offering pairs that p2 dare not take.

I think, that if p2 can force a capture trade early, the p1 has already made a mistake. Yes p1 can often times win it. Being 1 move ahead. But this is not adzi. And is either more struggle, or less proficient, or less of a beautiful form, or slowed momentum or initiative.

It is possible that many of p1s 2nd and 3rd moves may need to be reconsidered because of this. Regardless of whether or not they are sure win.

Later I will put visual examples. But for now the floor is open for questions and comments.

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zoeyk

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 14, 2023, 8:09 AM

Bump

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watsu

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 15, 2023, 12:42 PM

Maybe some examples of adzi in this D Pente set between nedhall17 and me?




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watsu

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 15, 2023, 4:37 PM

Maybe adzi by P2 after a P1 error?



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watsu

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 6:30 PM

Adzi (aji) in Pente variants likely looks the same or similar. In this game, I chose to play the wedge opening due to 1. familiarity in Pente and 2. because my poof explorations indicate that unlike in boat, the wedge lines are (relatively) unchanged from Pente. I'd have to consider long and hard before trying wedge in a poof boat tournament. Anyway, typical adzi ideas around my moves 10-13. My opponent could have created a 3 and a poof block of my three simultaneously on move 13, but I had too much tempo at that point for that to help in the position.


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zoeyk

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:16 PM

Game 1 no I don't think. Because same result I think could be done by finishing extension first and then defending the other pair from cap.

Game 2, yes I believe thats a form of adzi. Usually using split 3s to hop into another position are. I think there are better split 3 examples like nosovs example where his split 3 blocks the post 3 but it counts yes.

Game 3 yes, although I would want to see the continuation. Ended rather abruptly.

Game unsure. The split 3 is made with the intent to capture to continue. Which, capturing is usually not what adzi wants to do. As loses tempo. And adzi rule is only capture if no way to continue building. But its wedge. Which is a cap game. Which leads me to question the wedge.


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Sep 18, 2023, 11:21 PM

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watsu

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:21 PM

9. ...K11 in game #3

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zoeyk

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:27 PM

Game 3, right. I guess I need to know, what happens to a white adzi if white needs to capture. I only know white can only cap if no way to continue building. But what exactly does it mean. Unfortunately nosovs is not around for questioning.
Well granted its black doing adzi here. Which I find more interesting because its usually white doing the adzi. I think if black continues from there without capturing then you have a spectacular example.


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Sep 18, 2023, 11:31 PM


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watsu

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:31 PM

Yeah, I certainly don't know. Just tossing ideas around to see what you think about them in terms of adzi or not.

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zoeyk

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:34 PM

I edited last post. Re read

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secshun8

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:41 PM

At the risk of grave understatement - misunderstanding even - it appears that adzi is something akin to a continual state of 'efficient forward momentum' in pente.

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zoeyk

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:41 PM

Hopefully pente_gon can add to this discussion as well.

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zoeyk

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:46 PM

Secshun8. That is a part of it. Its for sure a tempo thing. And initiative is involved. But simply making solid 3s, and offering no material to be captured, I dont think qualifies. Generally adzi is offering pairs, as a way to purchase tempo, and executing tempo by building not capturing. Because when you capture, you lose tempo. The pairs you offer, are supposed to be stones in opponents shoes. They slow down opponent. But opponent can not remove Because already running late.

With enough pairs offered. You can run twice as fast. Which brings in the saying I have in my avatar. Which nosovs had put in his book he wrote of renju.


Message was edited by: zoeyk at Sep 18, 2023, 11:49 PM

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secshun8

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Re: Adzi discussion
Posted: Sep 18, 2023, 11:51 PM

This is at least a partial explanation of where many (self absolutely included) have the greatest opportunity. A long line of losses to gam0467 has raised my awareness to a shortsightedness I still have. It's something like a pente glaucoma.

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