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Topic: Swap2 Pente
Replies: 11   Views: 1,370   Pages: 1   Last Post: Aug 12, 2023, 1:31 PM by: watsu

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Replies: 11   Views: 1,370   Pages: 1  
watsu

Posts: 1,415
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Swap2 Pente
Posted: Jul 27, 2023, 3:37 PM

First off - a big shout out and thank you to rainwolf for adding this variant!

Secondly - in turn based, it's really not going to be all that different from D Pente, though with three stones in a proposal instead of four there will be some differences. Nonetheless, D Pente fans should pick it up quickly

Thirdly - I encourage people to give it a try. It may not be for everyone, I'll admit, but in order to encourage rainwolf to develop the swap2 openings further we need to give it a try as a community to see who likes it.

Fourthly - Don't be surprised to encounter unfamiliar new names who already play it quite well. Between gomoku players, vinte.ee live players and boardgamearena turn based players there's a good sized talent pool outside of the familiar Pente.org regulars.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat


nedhall17

Posts: 37
Registered: Sep 25, 2021
From: Boston
Age: 56
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Jul 28, 2023, 7:48 PM

Just wanted to add my thanks to rainwolf! Really glad we have this variant now.

t0afer

Posts: 47
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 30
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 2, 2023, 3:01 PM

Really great to see this. Had no idea.

For those unaware of the rules they're fairly simple but can seem complicated due to wording

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pente#Tournament_rules

Here's the wikipedia entry.

Swap2 adds more variety to the opening and is very likely more balanced than either swap or pro (pente here).

watsu

Posts: 1,415
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 2, 2023, 7:49 PM

@T0afer - well,I'd say that sets of TB D are at least arguably fairer/more balanced than single games of TB swap2.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
rainwolf

Posts: 749
Registered: Apr 12, 2008
From: Singapore
Age: 44
Home page
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 6, 2023, 3:21 AM

what are your arguments for that?

watsu

Posts: 1,415
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 6, 2023, 2:12 PM

1. Pente (aside from a few potential variants) unlike gomoku and renju is a drawless game, so one side always has a winning advantage.
2. In real time games, the chooser of which side to play in swap games doesn't have the time or ability to exhaustively analyze an unfamiliar and relatively balanced proposal, but in a turn based game s/he often will be able to pick the winning side.
3. In real time games, a single game of D Pente is likely favorable to a strong proposer, due to the inability of the chooser to fully analyze the position. This is why swap2 opening rules are favored in gomoku as a way to balance the proposer's advantage by adding stones to proposals which are unfamiliar and appear balanced.

Essentially, a single game of TB swap2 is likely to give a slight advantage to a strong chooser who takes the time to analyze the position. Playing a simultaneous set of TB D Pente instead is somewhat likely to result in a drawn set between two strong and relatively equal players, which isn't an achievable outcome in a single TB swap2 Pente game.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
gasket

Posts: 3
Registered: Jun 27, 2022
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 6, 2023, 8:59 PM

I'm definitely excited to have swap2 available. I just bought a subscription for the database and joined the King of the hill tournament.

Hopefully having swap2 here can attract more players who are familiar with the opening rules from gomoku and the Mind Sports Olympiad as well.

Most interested in playing swap2 rules
bob322bob

Posts: 19
Registered: Aug 24, 2015
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
Age: 63
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 8, 2023, 2:29 AM

There does seem to be one aspect that should be added. Since the variation is set up to be one game only, instead of two with each player having a game as first move, the "Start A New Game" page should have a field for the person issuing an "invitation" to choose being player 1 or player 2, so that one can have a chance to play games in both situations instead of always being stuck with the same position every time. It allows for a player to not only place the first three stones and wait for the other to decide, but also have the opponent place the first three stones and have the luxury of choosing how to proceed. It would even up the "playing field". It is a natural design. Just as chess sites have the option to choose to be white or black of even on some sites "random" letting a number generator make the choice. The way Swap2 is set up now, you are forced to always let the other have the choice. I would like to have the choice the same amount of times as my opponent. Thank you and have a good night.

rainwolf

Posts: 749
Registered: Apr 12, 2008
From: Singapore
Age: 44
Home page
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 8, 2023, 10:32 AM

it's been on my todo list ever since I added Go

bob322bob

Posts: 19
Registered: Aug 24, 2015
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma USA
Age: 63
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 8, 2023, 12:32 PM

Rainwolf,

Nice outfit. Same tailor as "Werewolves of London"? lol (:

rainwolf

Posts: 749
Registered: Apr 12, 2008
From: Singapore
Age: 44
Home page
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 12, 2023, 10:30 AM

FYI, the live version is also available now

watsu

Posts: 1,415
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Re: Swap2 Pente
Posted: Aug 12, 2023, 1:31 PM

Yay! Thank you! One swap2 table available in KotH, no waiting.
ETA: looking forward to assisting in the establishment of KotHs for live swap2 and speed swap2 soon. Msg me to make an appointment for one or more games.

Message was edited by: watsu at Aug 12, 2023, 1:35 PM


Message was edited by: watsu at Aug 12, 2023, 1:41 PM


Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
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