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Topic: Current theory on Black's best move after K10 K9 N10
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karlw

Posts: 946
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Current theory on Black's best move after K10 K9 N10
Posted: Mar 7, 2019, 7:46 PM

Based on the results and theory that I've seen, there are 5 candidates for Black's strongest reply: M9, L8, M8, L11 and J11. Edit: I've found a sixth strong move that I'm going to keep secret for as long as possible, since there's a tournament going

I haven't studied J11 for a long time, but I had some success with it, and it looks like no one has busted it yet. It seems to be totally unclear whether L12 or L8 is the optimal White 3rd. My vote is L12. Having H10 as a possible continuation messes with a lot of Black's key strategies.

I've played M9, L8 and M8 extensively. For M9, I think there's a longstanding consensus that if White plays a very precise wedge she should win, but Black has many sharp lines in which he can try for 5 captures.

For L8, after J10 L10, I believe white can either capture or extend, and both positions are fairly comfortable wins if White knows the traps.

White has many good 3rd moves after M8, but Black has opportunities to keep his plans hidden for a while and play to confuse White. For example, against the natural 3 L12, Black does not play the obvious (but weak) M11, but instead the very strange-looking M9! and White has to work hard for the win (in fact, one of the few times I beat Rich's White was with this 3rd move). White's best moves here are less obvious, in my opinion, but if she has studied well, she can quickly prove Black's position to be weak and get wins much more easily than against the more directly counterattacking seconds M9 and L8.





If I remember right, L11 became trendy (especially among some of the Polish players) after zoeyk and some others found very strong replies to M8. I'm working on some of the lines as we speak, but it seems like Black has many opportunities to play for confusion. The position below seems to be a critical tabiya in which White is slightly better but the win is a long way away.




I'm currently in the middle of a very close endgame in this opening with tiedup, where it looks like it will end in a thrilling race to 5 captures:

https://pente.org/gameServer/tb/game?gid=50000000289659&command=load&mobile&w=628&h=478

Thoughts?


Message was edited by: karlw at Mar 22, 2019 12:22 AM


It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.


karlw

Posts: 946
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Current theory on Black's best move after K10 K9 N10
Posted: Mar 8, 2019, 8:53 AM

Here's a possible novelty by spavacz that I wish wasn't in the database:



With 5 N9! White threatens L10, and Black cannot allow the resulting capture on K12, so he must play K12, allowing N8. Or does he? Gonna have to spend some time on this line.

I hate to say that White can probably even improve on this line by playing 8 M11 instead of K11. It looks like 3...M9 might be busted already. I'm becoming convinced that Black's best chance is the direct 3...L10, where, as with the Wedge and Boston lines, Black tries to make White's path to victory a bit more narrow with the threat of a win by captures.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
watsu

Posts: 1,099
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Re: Current theory on Black's best move after K10 K9 N10
Posted: Mar 8, 2019, 7:37 PM

Of the moves you've listed, in TB games L8 has historically given me the most problems. Opps are 2/2 when they've made that move against me TB. No one has tried J11 on me TB so far. Someone beat me in TB once here and at BK with M9 - out of 6 tries, + 14 tries with its mirror. Looks like someone beat my wedge back in 2008 with 3. ... M11! M8 and L11 are both 0/2. Apparently, a move not on your list has given me grief in the past TB; I'm 1/3 so far against L9. As far as what I have played TB as P2 here and at BK, I've won the following:
6/11 with M9 and 4/11 in the opposite order of play and 7/8 while using the mirrored position of K10 L9 N10 N9 - the only one I mirrored
5/7 with L8 and 2/6 in reverse play order
2/5 with M8
1/2 with L11 and 1/2 in reverse play
These games take no account of the strength of my opponents or time outs on either side, so a very large grain of salt is needed here 😉 Without the DB and/or in variants M9 is hands down my fave. Without it having been DB beaten to death, it seems to me to have the most potential for P2. Wedge and 🔨!
ETA: stats from playing the moves in reverse order and mirrored positions.


Message was edited by: watsu at Mar 8, 2019 7:42 PM

I don't want to play non tournament rules games. If you take one of my unrated invites, play tourney
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