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Topic: The removal of Dufus from the tournament
Replies: 6   Views: 16,089   Pages: 1   Last Post: Jan 16, 2003, 7:21 AM by: progambler

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dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
The removal of Dufus from the tournament
Posted: Jan 15, 2003, 10:37 PM

I would like to comment on the removal of Dufus from the tournament. I will begin by saying that I fully support this decision. I was consulted by the tournament directors as part of their decision making process, and my opinion at the time was that Dufus had committed sufficient violations to warrant removal from the tournament. I still believe this to be correct, and I will explain why. Gary had already clarified the reasoning behind the decision, so I will simply elaborate on them briefly and then add a few new thoughts at the end.

Regarding Dufus’ multiple practices of playing a rated game pitting two of his various Ids against one another-- This is blatant ratings manipulation, and I would guess it to be understood by all that such an act is not allowed. Perhaps a notice could be added to the main page reminding everyone of this, but I would imagine it would be understood without having to be stated explicitly. Certainly many of us have the capabilities to play rated games against ourselves, and we all owe it to each other not to engage in such a practice. It is not fair to everyone else, and it is just dishonest.

Secondly—There is the issue of Dufus’ multiple screen names in itself—I played him as “maryc” SEVERAL times, without ever knowing who he really was. This is shady and dishonest. I played as if I were playing a relative newcomer, when in fact I was playing one of the more advanced players. Gaining an unfair advantage in this manner is unacceptable, and again, all of us could engage in this practice, but we owe it to each other not to. Again, I would expect that this would be understood without being explicitly stated. There is no reason for an established player with 1000 games played to change his name, and if he does, he should tell the people he plays against. I also do not see any reason to have more than three user names: one for regular games, one for speed games, and perhaps one for experimental play to mess around with new lines. These experimental games should be unrated. There is no reason for someone to play rated games at normal speed with more than one name.

How would the rest of you feel if I started playing games under the name of “kenJones” or something like that, without telling you? I do not think you would appreciate that very much.

But, the final straw came when dufus tried to enter the tournament under yet another alias, Bug_none. There is no justification for this. Entering the tournament with a secret name cannot be tolerated, and this was what ultimately forced the decision that was made to remove dufus from the tournament. Lest anyone suggest that dufus had the intention of telling everyone that he was bug_none, I have two responses to this: 1) So what? there is still no reason why he signed up as Bug_none, and 2) I actually had a brief encounter with “Bug_None” during which I asked him if was entering the tournament, not realizing he was dufus. He had every opportunity to tell me who he was then and there, but he did not. I found out much later who he really was.

What this all comes down to is TRUST. This site is based on trust. There is nothing stopping anyone from cheating, from using strategy books, notes, or the database. Nothing except the fact that as a community, we have a mutual trust amongst one another. Dufus violated this trust with his actions, and he received the appropriate punishment as a result.

When I play a new player, I should not have to wonder to myself, “Is this really Dufus using an alias?” But now, I will wonder that, especially if I see a high rated new player. Dufus’ actions affected not only his own ratings, but other player’s ratings as well. People here, especially myself, take the ratings very seriously, but there is a limit to that. I will do whatever I can WITHIN the rules to attain a high rating. I would like to be the best at this game, and I will try to do this by defeating players as Dmitriking, not with an alias or by other questionable means.

Dufus is a fine pente player, one of the best at this site. He has given me the most challenging games out of anyone whom I play regularly. I agree with the tournament directors that if he does not repeat any of these actions, that he should be allowed to play in future tournaments. I hope the removal from this one would serve as a wake-up call.

I am glad that dufus has welcomed new players to the site and I agree that he is generally friendly and pleasant. There are, however, a couple of things that bear mention. One is the incident regarding the use of undos that prompted snutter to write his recent post about Dufus and the other is an incident that happened awhile back when Dufus and I were playing a rated game. I was disconnected from the server, and I made it back about 6 minutes later, to find that Dufus had forced my resignation—and we had only made 3 or 4 moves. Now, nothing within the rules prohibits this, but at the same time, there was no reason to do it, and I considered the act unsportsmanlike. At that early stage of a game, I think one should continue to wait, or just cancel it and restart it when the player returns.

I bring up these two incidents because I agree that dufus is a nice guy most of the time, but he can also be cutthroat at other times. I think that perhaps at times his competitiveness gets the better of him, as perhaps it did with these other actions.
Again, it all goes back to trust, and I think dufus needs to earn back the trust that has been lost. I look forward to his future participation, as Dufus, in upcoming tournaments.

--Dmitri king



dweebo

Posts: 1,031
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Powell, OH
Age: 37
Home page
Re: The removal of Dufus from the tournament
Posted: Jan 15, 2003, 11:24 PM

I agree with dmiti on all but one point.

I don't have a big problem with someone creating a new ID and playing with it without telling anyone. That is one of the nice things about the internet, you can be anonymous. On the other hand, I would have a problem if a good player created a new ID and then tricked you by saying something like "I'm a new player, can you show me how to play".

I don't understand why you would assume a player is not any good just because they haven't played many games at DSG. I guess it could be a complimate to the site that only players who have played here for awhile are good When I play (or used to play, haven't had time lately) I would regularly be surprised by the level of play from players who just joined, dmitriking is a good example! He was beating me pretty soon after he joined. So, in my opinion, it's your own fault if you let your guard down when playing against a new player.

-dweebo

Pente Rocks!
mike321

Posts: 55
Registered: Jan 21, 2002
From: ohio
Age: 65
Re: The removal of Dufus from the tournament
Posted: Jan 16, 2003, 12:31 AM

firstly let me say that dufus signing up as bug_none was an accident he rectified as soon as he realized it happened. there was NEVER any intent to "defraud" if you will, in fact, when i mentioned the directors fears that he might enter B section, he was rolling on the floor


laughing and asking " what would be the pouint?"
secondly, i agree with dweebo, if you"re not putting your best efforts forth against all opponents ,you get exactly what you deserve. play me under any name you like dimitri!!
thirdly, i really think the directors made a big thing out of nothing. Who really cared??

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: The removal of Dufus from the tournament
Posted: Jan 16, 2003, 3:52 AM

The person who made a big thing out of nothing was Dufus, with all of his various shennanigans. If Dufus' signing up as Bug_none was an accident, nothing would have happened to him had he not engaged in unscrupulous activity previously. As I said, his actions were not trustworthy, and as a result, certain decisions were made.

As for your comment about my not putting forth the best effort against different players, you are showing an ignorance of how the game works. That is not the issue. Certain defenses are VERY effective against beginners and mid-level players, but would get crushed by top players such as Dufus. So, if I think I am playing a mid-level player, I am not goign to resort to a defense that I think is unnecessary based on the opponent I am facing.

Dweebo said it might be wrong to assume that soemone with few games played is a beginner. Fine, I'll grant that, but I AM entitled to assume that a "new" player is not Dufus!

You say I can play you under any name I like? Okay, then I'll create a phony account, as Dufus likes to do, and lose 20 games and get a rating of 600. Then I will play you and beat you, destroying your hard earned rating. Do you think that is fair? I don't. That is why I play people under TWO names only- Speedmitri for speed games, and Dmitriking for regular games. You can be assured if you play anyone else, that you are NOT playing me, and that is the way it should be!

As for the tournament directors "making a big deal out of nothing," well, I beg to differ. Playing rated games pitting two of ones IDs against one another is not "nothing"



dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Clarification of my last post
Posted: Jan 16, 2003, 5:15 AM

Perhaps my last post was a bit too harsh. Mike, I should not have phrased what I said the way I did. Apparently we each have our own strategy and/or philosophy. I have found that mine works for me, and when I thought it was under attack in your last post, I reacted strongly. Anyway, to sum up my point, yes, I do play differently dependong on whom I am playing, and on occasion it may backfire. If that happens, so be it. I do maintain though, there is a distinction between my strategy backfiring because I misjudged a "new|" player and it backfiring because I was fooled by an experienced player. One involves a simple error in evaluation on my part, the other involves deliberate deceit on the part of the ohter player.

ALso, just to briefly respond to something dweebo said-- Of course, being that the site is Dweebo's stone games, his input is very important and I greatly value what he has to say. However, i am not sure I see such a clear distinctin between the actions that he termed acceptable, and htose that he deemed unacceptable.

Dweebo, perhaps this could be a good topic of discussion on a separate thread, wiht people weighin in with thieir opinions-- I don't think a player should play rated games at normal speed under more than one name. My reasoning is as follows:

1) I see no reason for it, except for subterfuge.
2) Although the internet does allow us to be anonymous, that doesn't mean we should necessarily create several aliases. One can have a single ID, such as "progambler" and still be anonymous.
3) People having many different names and playing under them without telling their opponents cna only lead to ill will and problems. I see no benefit. This is somewhat redundant with my first statement.


I am not naive enough to beleive that everyone would follow such a policy even if it DID exist (and I may be the only one who supports such a policy for all I know), however, many people, myself included, woulkd abide by such a policy simply because it would be the ethical thing to do, just as I do not use the database or notes and such while playing games because that is t he ethical thing to do.

I am curious to hear other people's input on this. I am interested in hearing opinions on both sides, and also, I am inteested in eharing from those who do use multiple IDs, explaining why they do this. Thanks.

-Dmitri


sjustice

Posts: 72
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: pensacola
Age: 40
Home page
Re: The removal of Dufus from the tournament
Posted: Jan 16, 2003, 5:22 AM

Indeed, the chance of a player rated 1600 with only 3 games under his belt being a stronger player than one rated 1750 after 50 games is quite high. You are dealing with an unknown which is more difficult to prepare for. We were all new to the site at one time, but many of us were experienced players when we played our first dsg game.

Scott




progambler

Posts: 79
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Lenexa, KS
Age: 42
Re: The removal of Dufus from the tournament
Posted: Jan 16, 2003, 7:21 AM

Mike -

>> Firstly let me say that dufus signing up as bug_none was an accident he rectified as soon as he realized it happened. <<

Mike, here is why we KNOW it was not an accident. Here is the sequence of events:
1. Dufus entered under the Bug_none I.D.
2. Dufus 'accidently' deleted the Bug_none I.D.
3. Dufus E-mailed Dweebo to re_instate the Bug_none I.D.
4. Dweebo, being aware of the situation with Dufus already and that this was one of his I.D.'s, forwarded the information to the directors and asked for our input before doing the re-instatement.
5. Dufus entered under his 'Dufus' I.D. without letting Dweebo know to NOT re-instate the 'Bug-none' I.D.

We don't believe that there's anything 'accidental' about all of this. I believe that most people would come to the same conclusion. When we saw that he had entered as Dufus without letting us know about Bug_none, we knew that something must be up. The decision was quite easy at that point.


>> there was NEVER any intent to "defraud" if you will, in fact, when I mentioned the directors fear that he might enter section B, he was rolling on the floor <<

I don't ever recall saying or writing that we feared him playing in Section B. The only thing that we fear is losing honest players in the future because they know that the directors allowed a dishonest player to play in the tourney. If we lose players in the short run as a result of banning Dufus from this tournament, we know that we will gain back many times as many players in the future because they will KNOW that the tourneys will be 'on the level'.


>> thirdly, i really think the directors made a big thing out of nothing. Who really cared?? <<

Many honest players care! Just check out the posts of Snutter, Dunsmore, DmitriKing, and Sjustice.

I would like to ask one last thing here. Why hasn't Dufus responded to any of this? We welcome his comments here either in the forum or in an E-mail to any and/or all of the directors. He has not as of yet sent us any follow-up E-mail's attempting to defend his actions. So far, most of his defense has been done by you, Mike321, his brother, and your son, Littlebug, his nephew. I can understand your standing up for him because he is a family member, but we would also like to hear from him. We don't think that we should have to get it through a '3rd party'.


Gary

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