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Topic: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
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richardiii

Posts: 366
Registered: Dec 8, 2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Age: 63
Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: May 28, 2007, 6:56 PM

I have always had a tiff with the way opponents are assigned based on seeding.

Here is an example in a make believe tour of 10 players, where opponents are assigned as follows:

1 vs 10
2 vs 9
3 vs 8
4 vs 7
5 vs 6


This arrangement is not fair to the lower ranked player who get wiped out in their 1st set, and the higher ranked players don?t get challenged too much. Only the middle ranked players get to have an interesting time of it.

A better arrangement would be as follows:

1 vs 6
2 vs 7
3 vs 8
4 vs 9
5 vs 10


In this scenario the level of competition is elevated for everyone not just in the middle rankings.



karlw

Posts: 946
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: May 28, 2007, 10:39 PM

Well Rich, in some ways your change makes things better, but if you look at it from another point of view, in the first situation at least there are 2 matches that are really close each round (5 v. 6 and 4 v. 7), whereas in your setup there are no close matches, because everyone is 5 seeds apart. Also, players in the upper and lower ends of the seeds are often further apart in skill then the middle ends (simple Gaussian distribution), so it's more important for them to be paired together than for everyone to have a decent match, at least in the preliminary rounds.

I say we stick with the tried-and-true formula for now.


Message was edited by: karlw at May 28, 2007 4:44 PM

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
mmark

Posts: 126
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
From: The Untied Kingdom
Age: 110
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: May 30, 2007, 10:04 PM

YOu both make a good point. I think that the players should be drawn randomly. To me, if it's random then it's the fairest way of doing it.

nosovs

Posts: 205
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Moscow,Russia
Age: 56
Home page
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: May 31, 2007, 10:01 AM

Yes, I think that Richard suggestion is fair.
The Tournaments are playing for those who want to win it, not for those who say my place is 6 or 8
If you want to fight for first place generally it is not important who is playing against you, you have to beat anyone.

karlw

Posts: 946
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: May 31, 2007, 11:04 PM

I don't understand, alex: how does that make rich's suggestion fair? You're still just as likely to be unlucky in the pairings. Nothing can change that.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
richardiii

Posts: 366
Registered: Dec 8, 2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Age: 63
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 1, 2007, 5:43 AM

The point is to reduce disparity, and offer more competition at all levels in the early rounds. A tournament should be more fair and interesting to everyone as a whole, not just to the few who can win it all. Under the present system, a lower ranked player may not join at all if they think they don't have any chance to advance past the 1st round, while my suggestion gives such a player some hope of advancing, and gaining the reward and the fun of playing competitive sets.

Also the present system offers the more advanced player little to be interested in too, while under my suggestion there is greater potential for a competitive match. Especially if a greater number of players participate.

I fully believe that a tournament should be more interesting at all levels of play, so that it attracts a greater diversity of players.

nosovs

Posts: 205
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Moscow,Russia
Age: 56
Home page
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 2, 2007, 9:56 AM

I really have not fun to win all games against weak opponents.
I think that it is better to get such player like you karl and playing interesting 1-st round

tenuki

Posts: 2
Registered: Jun 18, 2006
From: Buenos Aires - Argentina
Age: 52
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 3, 2007, 11:22 PM

At every other sport (Tennis, Bridge, Chess, Football, Golf, etc) when it is played by elimination, the formula is first against last, second best against second last, etc...is PENTE so different from every other game?
If it is not, then we must play under the same rules.

delgr

Posts: 101
Registered: Jan 16, 2004
From: york,pa,usa
Age: 39
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 5, 2007, 1:20 AM

R3's idea is a good one. Sign up Nosovs so we can see a interesting final round.

carson75

Posts: 101
Registered: Jul 27, 2006
From: Atlanta
Age: 133
Home page
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 5, 2007, 4:13 AM

Well I definitely agree with Richard. If you want to attact more lower ranked players into the tourney, you cannot set them up for "automatic elimination" in the first round. I almost didn't sign up for this tournament because I assumed I have virtually no chance to win in the first round. Most players ranked even lower than me will be even more discouraged from signing up if they have to play the top seed.


Anyway, I have one more idea for you. You can do oylmpic style seeding (such as olympic hockey.) Divide people into random groups, play a preliminary round-robin round, then assign seeds based on the results of the preliminary matches. This is a little more complicated to manage, but it would be the fairest of all systems. It would give everyone a fighting chance to win a few games.

karlw

Posts: 946
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 5, 2007, 5:40 AM

sorry carson, but it's really hard to take what you say seriously as long as you have freaking limecat as your pic. really now lol.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
nosovs

Posts: 205
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
From: Moscow,Russia
Age: 56
Home page
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 5, 2007, 6:33 PM

For Delgr
I can not play at the Tournament because of time zones.
I prefer turn base . I can play only early in the morning but this time it is already around 1 AM at USA.
I had played richard and karlw, and it is enougth for me.
Nothing for compete in the Tournament.
May be I'll play "RED PLAYERS TOURNAMENT ONLY"

karlw

Posts: 946
Registered: Mar 7, 2006
From: Eugene, Oregon
Age: 32
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 5, 2007, 9:30 PM

nosovs: there are only 5 active red-rated players on this site. that would be a short tournament.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
carson75

Posts: 101
Registered: Jul 27, 2006
From: Atlanta
Age: 133
Home page
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 6, 2007, 2:53 AM

Karl, I am glad you enjoy my Tequila Cat picture. This is my game face when I play you. ... and you better "respect my authority!"

jhs55

Posts: 264
Registered: Jun 4, 2006
From: Houston, tx
Age: 58
Re: Opponents Assigned Based on Tournament Seeding
Posted: Jun 6, 2007, 4:28 AM

I think this tournament should be about playing for money.Masters entery fee $25, Experts fee $20 and so on, with pay outs to first, secoud, third and if enough players, fourth and fifth....of course this would mean a random draw, players such as nosovs would be drawn to play reguardless of there own time zone. just think what it would look like to have your name atop the new money players list !

i owe riii 15 cases of beer !...dang man...
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