gomoku tournament issue
Posted:
Mar 14, 2025, 1:47 PM
Hi all. As you know, gomoku is solved long ago. For now, it's not an issue for a strong renju or gomoku player to win a game being first without opening rules applied. It's like 35 or 37 moves needed, not a lot (18th move on this server). There is a lot of players in the world who are able to win 95%+ of games playing first.
The problem is, when two such players meet in the tournament, they will play infinitely.
As to me, I never play surewin openings here. But most of players here does. And if I see a surewin played vs me in the tournament, maybe I will play surewin too. And eventually we will have an infinite gomoku tournament =(
Re: gomoku tournament issue
Posted:
Mar 18, 2025, 4:29 PM
When you reach certain playing level, you don't need to memorize such variants, you understand them since in most variants the attack is pretty obvious. I think all gomoku players with rating 2300+ ( https://gomokurating.renju.net/rating_all.html ) as well as all renju players with rating 2300+ ( https://rating.renju.net/rating_all.html ) will hit 95% winrate easily.
Also I've written a book on renju opening theory quite a while ago, so I do know/memorized a lot as well. But it is not about surewins mostly but about playable, equal variants.
Re: gomoku tournament issue
Posted:
Mar 22, 2025, 6:09 AM
Hi Owen. When I first played against you, I didn't know much about the game or surewin advantage. Maybe some of your opponents don't know either. I'm sure those that join a tournament would, but casual players maybe not. I'm interested in reading your book. I'm sure others here also would love to, too. How can I get a copy or link
Posts:
5
Registered:
Jun 20, 2024
From:
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Age:
55
Re: gomoku tournament issue
Posted:
Mar 29, 2025, 2:52 PM
I guess I’m not sure why you would still play if you know you are going to win. To me, that seems to take the fun out of playing and prevents someone like me from challenging someone like you. I am never going to memorize the sure win openings mostly due to concussions I received in the military. Instead I have to play based on basic strategy.
> why you would still play if you know you are going to win
Well, it is a good point. That's why I've never played a first player surewin in gomoku on this site: it's dull and boring.
But others do; for instance, lojza. He plays only I9 and D4 openings which are known to be the shortest route to win in gomoku. Once he played I2 which is still easily won for the first player. I doubt he will ever lose a set in gomoku here because he will always win one game of a set.
But let's return to your post. Do I know that I'm going to win playing vs you or any other player? Well, nobody knows. I do less mistakes, I do know more opening theory but that's all about advantage, not about win. If playing an equal game (as I do playing faraway openings being first player), both player have chances, so eventually you may beat me, why not. I'm not invincible, I'm a human after all. I do mistakes.
"And why do I play? Because I love the game =)" ^ This as well for me with Pente. Even though I'm confident I'll win 90% of my turn based games in swap2 Pente, I still play it when I have the chance - for those rare tough games, for those rare mistakes, because I hope others will be inspired to learn and study the game, and because I love it.
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
Re: gomoku tournament issue
Posted:
Jun 5, 2025, 9:02 PM
> Same in pente.
No, not exactly the same =)
As you can see, all pente tournaments have finished. And gomoku is stuck on the stage where two strongest players met. This clash will end only when one of these two players will occasionally forfeit the game where he is No 1.
Easy solutions? 1. Opening rules, particularly swap2 rule (not swap, not pro rule). 2. Oblige the player No 1 to make the first move in D3, F2, G2 or H2. Some of these moves may be still unbalanced but it's beyond human capabilities to use it properly. 3. Give an option for the second player to swap colors after the 1st move (I mean, in normal, non-chess numeration, when there is only 1 stone on the board).
