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Topic: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Replies: 8   Views: 14,783   Pages: 1   Last Post: Aug 20, 2004, 8:08 PM by: mike321

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mickeyss

Posts: 16
Registered: May 15, 2002
From: washington state
Home page
2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 15, 2004, 1:03 AM

As a note from one who actually does not matter in the pente world...I believe the Vegas Tourney was unjust to many who traveled to play this silly game..I played half of the people and went on my way sat thinking I was to play Sun..Well to my total embarrasment I did not play Sun , even though there were 2 DQ"ed spots..
The rules as far as time were made up and in all fairness should have been made public if speed or faster games were to be played....Pente like Chess takes time for some to see moves...
I take nothing away from all the great players attending but this was one Tourney I wont miss....
Be it I dont give a crud about myself...But I do care about others who showed up for the 1st time and tried a game that only DM can fully explain..
I see no promoting Pente from this Tourney only resentment ....Expell me from Pente but I speak the truth..



up2ng

Posts: 542
Registered: May 9, 2002
From: Northeast USA
Age: 38
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 15, 2004, 2:12 AM

Good to see your name in the forums mick! I agree with everything you are saying. I did not like the short games and some of the decisions made but I still think the tournament was a great success. The directors were trying to deal with some time constraints -- and I'm not sure how the decision was made about the DQ'd spots.

When I had suggested the playing format, the idea was to try to provide every player with an opportunity to play several meaningful tournament matches and yet also provide an elimination style bracket so that "tie-breakers" are not used to determine the champion. However, I had envisioned a system where people who did not qualify for the playoffs and players who get knocked out of the playoffs get to continue in the elimination rounds to determine their exact placement in the tournament. For example, those knocked out of the quarterfinals would play a 4 person bracket to try for 5th place (the losers of that battle for 7th). And the 6 players who did not make the top 8 have a bracket to try for 9th place, etc, etc. I think there was some confusion about that point as well as some anxiousness about the time constraints. I hope you had a great time in Vegas though, I know I did!

Mick, one of the things we will try to do in the near future is to collect some constructive feedback from the players, as well as some who were on the fence and decided not to attend. Hopefully the next big event will correct some of the things you object to and make various other improvements.

Just remember this was the first "big" tournament in many years, and many valuable ways to make improvements will come from this experience. Many aspects were experimental -- the format, the 2 days of play, the location, etc etc.

Just don't take these things personally. Hopefully it was a fun experience overall and the next one will be even better!

mickeyss

Posts: 16
Registered: May 15, 2002
From: washington state
Home page
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 15, 2004, 5:24 AM

who as a new player trying to represent thereselves feel comfortable playing in that situation again..
Time was crappy and forced peeps to go fast...
If I signed up for a speed Tourney so be it...
If peeps drop due to whatever should another not be able to play who is worthy and can play or who wants to...There are many issues here that I wont bring up Dean but this was not a way to promote the game ...
People from Pente.net showed and it was good to see them and my friend actually tried to play also..which took a lot of nerves facing DM ,you,dufus,Mike ect..
I know many players and the rebutal will vary,,,But I dont care anymore...
So what is your answer, shun the weak so only you ,DM,snut and Dufus plays....
I did not even play the field which sucks..

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 15, 2004, 5:58 AM

mickeyss -- you list numerous complaints but no suggestions or solutions. It it this somewhat difficult to respond to your post. THe people in charge did what they could do with limited time. I thought peple were goingto play Sunday also, but most of them did not show up.

as Deanmentioned, we would like to collect constructive feedback. What would you have done differently?

mickeyss

Posts: 16
Registered: May 15, 2002
From: washington state
Home page
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 15, 2004, 8:56 AM

DM I respect you and all who attended..I dont have an aswer yet but in all fairness should we all play a set and continue with time controls and have rules on DQ"ed players and replacements..
I feel like a goat and wont attend again unless we as a community can resolve this..
There was no stipulation on time, DQ"ed players ect...It was all made up as we played...and who is to say who makes the rules...It was not set in stone..
I have my issues and sorry to vent..
Mick..

indriel

Posts: 1
Registered: Sep 14, 2003
From: CA
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 17, 2004, 6:23 AM

Congratulations DM, and thank you to Patricia and Tom for all the time and effort you put into this tournament. It wouldn?t have happened at all without you and you did a good job with what you had to work with. I don?t know all the facts, but my understanding from what I heard at the tourney, is that there has been a lack of support in putting this all together. In fact, it was a lack of involvement that prompted Greg Strange to step down from his position in the WPPF.

I think it is unfortunate that there was a lot of misunderstanding, and that there was such a poor turnout after so many had expressed interest. It is unfortunate that people paid a lot of money to get to the tournament and paid tournament fees without knowing that they may not get to play on the second day, but this is a learning experience. There are a lot of good, intelligent people in the Pente world and if these people could just give a little time and effort to further the growth of this game, we could increase interest and improve tournaments each year.

As I said at the tourney, I think a big step toward eliminating confusion and frustration would be to agree on the complete tournament structure and rules and publish them before the tournament begins. That way, players will know exactly what to expect and can decide whether or not they want to participate beforehand. Another suggestion would be to have someone who isn?t actually playing in the tournament do the officiating and post the standings. It seemed very difficult for Tom to have to run back and forth between games trying to post the standings and set up the next round. Also, while I was playing a match against Tom, there was a question regarding the rules in the game next to us. It was difficult for Tom to address this question while he was playing. We probably should have stopped our clock so that he could give the question his full attention. Or maybe there could be more than one official so they could take turns playing and helping the players, and have another person posting the standings.

There are many ways these issues can be handled, and there are several tournament structures that can be used. These things need to be researched and agreed upon before the next tournament. I am willing to volunteer. I like to write and I am pretty good at it, so I would be willing to write, or assist in writing the rules. This has to begin now though so that there is time to research, discuss, and agree upon all aspects of the tournament.

It was very intimidating having to face DM in my first match, but I did have a good time and learned a few things. It doesn?t matter if you are not good enough to win, it is just fun to meet these people face to face, play a few games, and learn a few tricks. I really hope that more and more people will get involved and come to these tournaments. It really is worthwhile.

Indriel/Laurie

mickeyss

Posts: 16
Registered: May 15, 2002
From: washington state
Home page
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 17, 2004, 12:07 PM

Like a skilled surgeon you ask me for answers...I dont have them Dmitri...I mearly show up and do my best...I am not ranked and I dont care to be any more...And you know what I really dont wanna be ranked ever..
But whats the deal with round robin Tourney set-up and I play you ,dean ,dufus.and Tom right off and go home..With time constrictions....No-one there even knew my rankings with a lap-top in reach to look em up..
Wow what fun..I am embarrased to even be in the pic which should have been taken the 1st day with all participants involved that even showed up for there 1st event ever..
Henceforth I did not even play Snut ,Hudson,Gaylen,Bodo,Parts ect.........
So If I am ever to attend and bring friends again...Should we practice speed games..Practice crappy ratings...practice being no-bodys,,, practice DQ"ed spots..or just pay the 50 bucks and go home..
And my friend this is not attacking by no means to anyone ....just minor issues..And you know me DM I would not and could not hurt a fly..

And further more I do as one person>>> bring many new ones into this game and dweebos ,,, to play learn and compete..and have fun than many others..
Why ...cause its fun...!!!!!!!

dmitriking

Posts: 375
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Age: 40
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 17, 2004, 5:42 PM

<<<<<<<< But whats the deal with round robin Tourney set-up and I play you ,dean ,dufus.and Tom right off and go home..With time constrictions....No-one there even knew my rankings with a lap-top in reach to look em up..
Wow what fun..I am embarrased to even be in the pic which should have been taken the 1st day with all participants involved that even showed up for there 1st event ever..
Henceforth I did not even play Snut ,Hudson,Gaylen,Bodo,Parts ect......... >>>>>>>

all along, the plan was to separate players into groups. If this was not made public, it should have been. THe players you mentioned are the exact same players that everyone else in our group played. And the second group you mentioned (snut, patricia, bodo), etc, well, neither you nor I nor anyone else in our group played them either on that first day.

I thought that we should have filled the vacant playoff spot on day 2, but it wasn't done that way. perhaps for the next one we can write that rule in ahead of time.

mike321

Posts: 55
Registered: Jan 21, 2002
From: ohio
Age: 65
Re: 2บบ4 Vegas..
Posted: Aug 20, 2004, 8:08 PM

i agree mick the empty seat should have been filled. we were all there to play . i should have played you instead of taking a bye.sometimes my mind doesnt work for crap. sorry.come to the next one, im sure these problems will be worked out. bob bugnone

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