Posts:
86
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Lake Tawakoni just east of Dallas, Tx.
Age:
56 Home page
Player Etiquette
Posted:
Mar 14, 2003, 10:07 PM
A while back I sugested that there might be the need, at the F A Q page, for some stuff on player etiquette. I was thinking about the need because of new players who are not sure about if watching games is OK, or about asking an opponent to play, and other things. By the way, lets all try to help the new players feel at home. I have since realized that a player etiquette topic could also be of use to experienced (no names mentioned!) players as well. I would like to give my ideas about a few things and see if any of yall have any input. After playing almost 5,000 games here I have had no problems geting along with anyone (I hope!). Hoping that everyone can play, have fun, and all get along may be a bit idealistic but????????????????????? Here goes!!! Undos; No one is obliged to give an undo. I always do but don't expect my opponent to. I have met players who would not accept an undo nor would they offer one. It is a courtesy and not an obligation to offer undos. Forced resign; The net is not perfect and most of us get booted from time to time. I would have to be reasonably certain that a player left on purpose due to a loosing game before I would force a resignation, but that is a courtesy and not an obligation. I don't get mad when someone resigns me. Hey, I am the one who disapeared and didn't make it back on time(I do like the 7 minute time idea)!! Advise of mised moves; I alwayse advise of open 3's or overlooked 4's. My opponent is not obligated to do the same. I do it because I want to see how the game will end up. Winning because of an overlooked move is not why I play pente. Players have different ideas about these subjects and that is their prerogative. If you do not want to play someone because of their ideas concernng undos, forced resigns, the color of their name, or for any other reason, that is your prerogative. Now...... can we all try to get along????? I know... I know...what are the odds??????? Anyway, what a great site!!!! Joeking
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Mar 14, 2003, 10:59 PM
Joe isn't saying anything new here. His points should be obvious to all without saying. The point is, everyone should be consistent. Anyone who denies undos should never ask for them. Anyone who forces resignations should expect the same in return. If soemone waits for you during a disconnection, you should wait for him in return. If soemone drops a stone at A1 by mistake, either accept an undo or not, as long as you are consistent if it happens to you.
Communication solves most of these problems before htey happen. Example:
"Hi ________, just so you know, I never grant undos and I never ask for them. If you get disconnected, I will impose the maximum sanction available to me, and I advise you to do the same if given the opportunity."
THen player _______ has a choice, he can play or he can say "Thanks, but I find your policies objectionable."
It's that easy. Common courtesy and common respect is all we need here and we can all get along fine.
If I do not accept a game invite right away, it means I will once I have fewer games in progress.
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Mar 14, 2003, 11:21 PM
i would like to say one more thing about player etiquette. all of u good folk should watch who is in the room when u speak and what u say. dm took a private conversation and cut and pasted it into a public forum. now im not ashamed at anything that i said in that conversation, but thats not the point. beware dm and any that u think might follow his extremely rude example. dufus
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Mar 15, 2003, 3:27 AM
Private conversation???? There were several people in the room when you began demanding that I tell everyone the facts about our disagreement. if you don't want a public scene, don't start one! You picked a fight with me and you got one. Next time, why not just quit while you're behind and shut up? The whole issue was dead until you started complaining about being misrepresented.
But, there is soem validity to what Dufus said-- If you act like a complete a__hole, the way Dufus did, you run the risk of having your words used against you!
I doubt that anyone else could possibly be as contemptible as Dufus, so I imagine this will not be a problem.
If I do not accept a game invite right away, it means I will once I have fewer games in progress.
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Mar 18, 2003, 6:01 PM
lolololol dm is the one who came into a room with mike321 and i and started that argument,and it matters not whether there were 2 or 3 players in the room. a private conversation is a private conversation.it always strikes me as humorous that when someones logic is failing them, they immediately revert to name calling.if he thinks that calling me an lol ahole makes him right in this matter, then all i can feel for him is pity. dufus
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Mar 19, 2003, 8:50 AM
good, pity me Dufus, now I can sleep at night. Thanks. Get the facts right. You picked the fight with me AS THE POSTED DISCUSSION CLEARLY SHOWS. As for what I called you, hey, sorry if the truth hurts. You're just bitter because you were exposes for the lowlife you are. You will never be a top player because your attitude makes you a loser.
You started this, you continued it, and now you are continuing it still. Every time it seems to be a dead issue, you bring it up again. If I were in your spot, I would just quit while I was behind, but apparently you do not have the sense to do that. A pity.
If I do not accept a game invite right away, it means I will once I have fewer games in progress.
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Mar 21, 2003, 7:23 PM
One more thing-- a "top" player, which DUfus no doubt aspires to be, would NOT need to take advantage of the privisional ratings system to create a new ID every time his rating falls below his desired level. Besides making a mockery of the ratings system, it is unfair to those who work hard to earn a top rating, and it just shows a desire to get his name atop the charts by any means necessary, which is no surprise given his various other actions of a similar nature. BUt, No specific rule forbids Dufus from doing this, so, he does it. IT is fortunate that the rest of us have the good sense not to do this, or else the ratingd would lose all meaning and chaos would ensue as everyone creates a new ID constantly. It is a shame that strict rules, instead of morals and goodwill, are what Dufus uses as his action guiding institute.
If I do not accept a game invite right away, it means I will once I have fewer games in progress.
Re: Player Etiquette (clearing the air)
Posted:
Jul 9, 2003, 5:27 AM
To whom it may concern:
In the spirit of Joe's post on etiquette, and having just (again) been refused a swap game after playing P2 because I denied an undo, I'm going to outline when I do and do not grant undos/force resigns for anyone who cares, which apparently some do. Anyone who has a problem with the way I do this please spare me the time and friction of your company because I'm tired of being made to feel like the bad guy.
I ALWAYS grant an undo when:
1.) There was an obvious slip of the mouse (someone drops a stone at A1, etc.). I have had crappy mouses (mice?), and I don't think bad equipment should be part of the game.
2.) The game is unrated. Unrated games are just that--they're just not that big a deal.
I will SOMETIMES grant an undo when:
3.) My opponent makes an intentional (as opposed to unintentional, as in (1) above but bad move in a rated game and IMMEDIATELY asks for an undo, costing me no time. However, if I decide not to, I do not see that anyone should expect this of me in a rated/timed game.
I will NEVER grant an undo when:
4.) My opponent makes an intentional but bad move, thinks about his/her bad move while I am running MY TIME thinking about my response to the bad move, and wants an undo after several minutes of time have come off my clock. This is ridiculous. I would never ask for an undo under such circumstances--I would take my lumps. I expect others to do the same if they're going to play me rated. To me, this amounts to stealing time off of your opponent's clock. It's bad sportsmanship even to ask.
5.) My opponent has a clear win, overlooks it, and gives me the advantage back with his/her move, seeing the clear win only after moving. Part of this game is learning to close out your opponent when you have the chance, and part of being good at this game is hanging around long enough to come back if given the opportunity. When I play rated, I choose for this important aspect of the game not to be neutralized by second chances. You may think that I take rated games too seriously. Fine. If so, don't play me rated. I have no problem playing unrated games.
Second topic. I will NEVER force a resignation on a disconnect when:
1.) I am losing.
2.) The game is too early/close to call.
I will ALWAYS force resignation on a disconnect when:
3.) From the position as of time of disconnect, I feel I would have won anyway. As I have played this game for the vast majority of my life, I think I know the difference. Again, I have been victim of bad connections, and so I don't want to use them to steal games. At the same time, I don't think it's fair for people to bail out on games they are losing, intentionally or otherwise.
So there. I hope that clears a few things up for anyone who I have pissed off with what they might see as me taking the game too seriously. To them, I would answer that they should not play rated if they want to take their moves back. In any tournament situation in any strategy game (not just pente), your move is final once you take your hand off the piece. Clicking the mouse is the internet equivalent. Period. For the record, I grant more leniency with my opponents than I give to myself. The only time I would ever ask for an undo is if my mouse slipped, in which case it should be very obvious.
So that's all. I'm sorry this went on so long, but I am tired, Tired, TIRED of being made to look/feel like the bad guy for not granting favors to others in rated games that I would not ask to be granted myself. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Peter took off the "Undo" option for rated games, but if that is asking for too much, at least no one should EXPECT their opponent to grant them in rated games. Thank you. Bye bye.
Re: Player Etiquette (clearing the air) P.S.
Posted:
Jul 9, 2003, 5:35 AM
P.S. I did not mention names in the previous e-mail precisely because I am NOT interested in a flame war. Unlike those who apparently have a problem with me, I do not think that people asking for undos, if it is previously agreed upon practice, is necessarily bad sportsmanship. It's just a different level of formality than that at which I choose to play. Those of you who think undos are a part of the game, you know who you are. Those of you who choose to try to gain ratings points by playing rated games with people more than 100 pts. over your rating (I have never had "undo" problems with anyone who does not fit this description) should not expect to get wins over top players by being handed second chances. Second chances were not what made the top players what they are. If you want to learn from someone better than you, that's great. However, if you want to learn by experimentation with mulitiple lines, do it unrated.
OK, I really am done this time. I feel better now.
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Jul 10, 2003, 4:14 PM
Joe, I agree with you on all of these points. I'm glad you brought up ettiquette, because I was thinking about making a post here about the subject. IMO a new player is ill advised to come in with no stats and start trash talking opponents, calling people practicing positions at tables stuped and calling people in the waiting room chicken because they do not wish to play him/her, as well as wondering in the waiting room if only cr@ppy players play here and whether "progambler is a poser". To me this doesn't seem to be the way to make new friends at the site and/or get many players here to want to play him/her (except possibly for smackdown purposes). This is obviously a very skilled pente player, but I do not think he understands basic ettiquette too well. If this player reads the forums I would advise him to leave his name in the waiting room for a few hours each evening while he does other things, and likely he will get an invite from someone who can give him "a good game". I love this site and it has for the most part been very friendly for me, so I'd like to see that continue.. In the meantime I think I'll pretty much ignore this player except perhaps to watch him learn a few pente lessons... An ignore user feature might be a good option if the site gets abused; I can think of a couple of situations where it might have come in very handy. :~} Tom
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
Re: Player Etiquette (clearing the air) P.S.
Posted:
Jul 11, 2003, 4:14 PM
Aaron- I agree with everything that you said. I think as long as a player is ocnsistent, there can be no objection. In the past, my gripe was with people who had taken undos in the past, then suddenly decided to stop granting them to others.
But this is not the situation in your case, as you have clearly stated what I consider to be a very fair stance on undos. The player who refused to play you does not have a legitimate complaint.
One thing though (and this should not really have any effetc on your stance on undos, but I just wanted to make you aware), on dweeob's site, if you think for 5 minutes and then give your opponent an undo, you would get the time back.
Of course, after 5 minutes, I think it is completely inapproproate for anyone to ask for an undo anyway.
If I do not accept a game invite right away, it means I will once I have fewer games in progress.
Posts:
86
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Lake Tawakoni just east of Dallas, Tx.
Age:
56 Home page
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Jul 11, 2003, 7:29 PM
Thanks Watsu and Afortune for responding to my post. My main point was to find a way for us to compete, have fun, get along, help new players, and learn more about this great game. We all have different agendas while playing at DSG. Top players have a need to protect their rating due to the seedings in the tournaments here. I think Afortune made some good points and is well within his rights to have his own guidelines concerning undoes and disconects. His offer to play unrated with those who have much lower ratings was gracious and should solve the undo/disconect and other issues discused earlier. The other top players that Afortune may chouse to play rated games with can discuss these issues prior to play. Calling other players names is, your right watsu, no way to make new friends. We do have an "ignore" button. Just boot them from your table and ignor them in the main room. Even better would be to convince rude players to BE NICE. Hey............... I have even seen it happen. I have been MIA from the site due to being swamped with lake property sales in Texas this time of year but I'll be back! Joeking
Posts:
1
Registered:
Jul 12, 2003
From:
Just outside of Austin, TX.
Age:
17 Home page
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Jul 12, 2003, 11:24 PM
I know I'm a noobie but I have played many online games in my time. I completely agree with Aaron on his reply. The only thing i would do is enforce that if I choose to force a resignation, my opponant would have to be clearly loosing and no chance to recover without a series of vast mistakes on my part and good moves on his. I also think that flaming of any kind is something that should not be done. Especially in public place, such as a forum. I feel that forum mods should be very stren on that point. Most forums that I continue to post on has mods that allow for one to two warnings and then a ban. Flaming benefits no one and if someone has some stress or anger, go work it out in a gym, or run or something, just don't release it on other people, in real life or online. I'll stop ranting now. ;P EA
Posts:
1
Registered:
Jul 17, 2003
From:
here
Age:
17
Re: Player Etiquette
Posted:
Jul 17, 2003, 8:56 PM
Things are fine the way they are, if you start forcing people to act differently it'll be an even more volatile situation. As far as flaming on the forums goes, stop being such a baby ;]
