Hello, was thinking the other day. in chess there are both chess masters and chess grand masters. as far as i know they determine a chess grand master by if he/she can beat a room full of chess masters all at once.
so i was thinking, wouldn't it be cool if we could do that kind of test for pente. to determine if we have pente grand masters. ide like to think that we have at least a few of them among us. nosovs, richardiii, karlw, jozso, just to name a few.
who here thinks they are a pente grand master? who would like a test done to determine? maybe nosovs (for example)would like to take on all the 1900+ players at once to find out. i propose 30 minute time limit, with one player ~vs~ all available 1900+ players at the same time.
if all sets tied then i would think this qualifies him as a pente grand master. and if a set is taken from the him then not a pente grand master.
perhaps we could run this challenge on all the 1900+ players that are up to the challenge. all we would need is all the 1900+ players to participate.
any opinions on this?
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Sounds pretty cool. I would also like to see more player clasifications and re-classifications. Grand Master - Red (2000+), Master - Orange (1999 - 1850), Expert - Yellow (1849 - 1600), Class A - Green (1599 - 1400), Class B - Blue (1399 - 1000), Class C - Purple (999-), etc.
I'm sure there have been many discussions on the ratings and how points are determined. Obviously, nothing would be perfect, but the current method doesn't penalize you much if you lose to a player who is rated significantly higher than you are; which is great. But there seems to be quite a discrepency between upper level Class A and lower level Class A players. There is probably some statistical principal that no matter where you establish criteria, random scores will contest their logic. Never the less, I think Zoey has a point about the points.
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Correction:
Posted:
Jul 16, 2008, 10:42 PM
Grand Master - Red (2000+) Master - Orange (1999 - 1850) Expert - Yellow (1849 - 1700) Class A - Green (1699 - 1500) Class B - Blue (1499 - 1000) Class C - Purple (999-)
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Re: Pente masters & pente grand masters
Posted:
Jul 17, 2008, 8:15 AM
thanks, yea in the last picture it was taragon, in this picture it looks like either dill or fennel. i made the other dish, but this one i can't take the credit for.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: Pente masters & pente grand masters
Posted:
Jul 21, 2008, 5:11 AM
First off, I like the idea of having something like this happen and hope it can. I think anything that keeps the best players interested and in competition with each other is good for the health of the game.
I'm wondering how it would be set up; would all games be played simultaneously by all players or would each individual run the gauntlet separately? In other words, if 4 players show up, do they each play at three tables at once giving a total of 6 games going on simultaneously or would there only be three games going on by each player as they tested for their "grandmastership"? Obviously, the second way would be more challenging than the first, since the testers would be able to focus exclusively on a single game.
As far as I can tell on chess ratings, GM rating is based on performances (called norms) at larger tournaments. Since Pente is a smaller game and OTB tourneys are comparatively rare, that particular system wouldn't work so well for us currently.
On adjusting the colors- it wouldn't really affect anything except what color a player happened to be at that particular time. Since the player's rating number gives that (within its margin of error, which the colors would be prone to as well), I can't really see much point in swapping colors around.
In the tournament section, I put up a proposal ( http://pente.org/gameServer/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=2&threadID=3820&tstart=0 )suggesting that if a fairly accurate game scoring system could be worked out then Pente tournaments could be held in a similar manner to the way which duplicate bridge handles them. Everyone is competing against other players playing the same position from the same seat rather than against a given number of players sitting opposite them.
The advantages to such a method for tournaments (as I see them) are as follows:
1.) It would expand the number of playable positions far beyond what we can currently (sensibly) play, even with D Pente.
2.) Unlike with D Pente, there is no need to figure out and propose an "equal position".
3.) Since the competition will be playing exactly the same opening position, the competition in games becomes much fiercer- it's no longer about whether one wins the game (or set) but becomes about how well one can play from a particular position chosen at random, regardless of whether the position is a winning one or a losing one.
Obviously, having a satisfactory method to evaluate and score the wins and losses is the crux of such a system, but I think it could be worked out. In Braunlich's Pente book, for instance, one variant was listed as Pente for points, with the advantage of being able to handicap the better player as needed. I think that particular point system could be improved on, but the idea itself I think is a good one.
Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
Re: Pente masters & pente grand masters
Posted:
Jul 21, 2008, 9:42 AM
Oh, a couple more thoughts on the grandmaster testing- these really constitute at least somewhat different skill sets than regular timed games, so I don't think they should be used to determine the top players personally, but...
GMs also tend to be pretty good at blindfold games and speed games as well
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Re: Pente masters & pente grand masters
Posted:
Jul 22, 2008, 6:55 AM
Grand Master - Black (2100+) Master - Red (2099-2000); 100 point spread Expert - Orange (1999-1800); 200 ps Class A - Yellow (1799-1500); 300 ps Class B - Green (1499-1100); 400 ps Class C - Blue (1099-) Provisional - Purple
I don't care about the colors, other than that they do give a sense of accomplishment. I agree that there could be more delineation in the highest rankings; but regardless of the method, if there is some adjusting at the top, then maybe the whole scale could be recalibrated. Seems like it wouldn't be too hard, other than figuring out the breaking points, which I guess could get some feathers ruffled. But on the latest scale I'm suggesting, most people would get a promotion. Zoey's got a point, but his point applies to some of the other classes of players as well.
i propose 30 minute time limit, with one player ~vs~ all available 1900+ players at the same time.