Posts:
1,032
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Powell, OH
Age:
37 Home page
Boat-Pente
Posted:
Sep 3, 2007, 1:42 PM
Last night a new variant, Boat-Pente, (boat rules Pente) was introduced to DSG. As many of you may recall the rules were discussed (along with cheese) at great length.
I think it is a fun variant, like Poof-Pente. I don't think it is a replacement for Pente by any means, but that's ok!
My thanks to zoeyk for funding this addition, and for his work on the other features that will be added to DSG soon.
Along with this release I also fixed the multiple invite problem (so you should only see 1 invite from a player at a time).
And I fixed the buggy admin code so that partica can deactivate abusive players.
And I also added a five minute ban when you boot someone from a table, that should help control abuse as well.
Boat-Pente is a variation of Pente proposed by player zoeyk. Also known as "boat rules" Pente.
The main difference between this game and Pente is in the end game. Once a Pente is made (5 stones in a row), the game can continue as long as the opponent is able to capture across the Pente! So in the example game below white hasn't won yet because black can capture on the next turn, removing the Pente. If after black moves the Pente is still in place then white wins.
Capturing 5 pairs is still a win like in Pente and the tournament rule is used for rated games.
i don't think boat-pente should be its own category in the same way that keryo- or speed- pente is, because they're almost identical. If you're good at pente you're good at boat-pente. there should just be a box you check when you're playing pente or speed pente that adds the boat rule.
I'm fine with Boat-pente. I think it's cool. However, your comparison with keryo and gomoku and even poof is completely unmerited. Keryo plays COMPLETELY differently from pente; there's barely any overlap at all in the strategy. In gomoku, you can't CAPTURE, so you have to completely re-evaluate your strategy as black. No one plays poof, so I won't even address it, except to say that at least the poof rule affects every aspect of the game, even if it rarely occurs.
Boat-pente, however, is EXACTLY the same as normal pente all the way up to the very end, and there the only difference is instead of ONE chance to **** up your opponent's pente, you get TWO. It doesn't change, it enhances. Because of this, I think it's completely pointless to have a separate rating for pente and boat-pente, because I'm sure that in the coming weeks you'll see an exact correlation between players' ratings. A brief example:
Olsava is really the only player who's played enough boat-pente for the rating to reflect his level who has a decent difference between pente and boat-pente ratings.
well that post was certainly....long. let's see if i can state my case.....briefly.
-i've come around to boat, so don't dredge up that old thread to counter me. i'm a changed man.
-i was being sarcastic about that, and i'm wrong anyway. boat-pente has caught on pretty fast, mostly thanks to your efforts i bet.
-when i said two, i didn't mean two moves, but two chances: on the four, and then on the five. now this might not affect everyone the same as it does me, 'cause we all play different, but personally i completely ignore the boat rule til the very end, and if my opponent tries some crazy boat crap on me, i just change up on him and win a different way. cuz to me, and this is the critical thing:
Boat rules does not alter the result. And what I mean by that is as long as the winning player is smart and cautious, he can turn his winning initiative into a win no matter WHAT boat threats his opponent throws at him, because the rule isn't strong enough to drastically change the game. I might be wrong about this, but so far I've gotten good results.
The thing that you may be missing here zoey, is I'm not arguing against the validity or integrity of boat rules. I think it's a very interesting twist to the rules. What I'm saying is that it doesn't make any sense to have it be its own separate category in the same way that D-pente or keryo is, because really the difference is too small. In order for a game to have its own separate rating and ranking system, i think it needs to be different enough that you can't just use your pente skills to get to 2000 easy, which is exactly what I did.
Posts:
1,032
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Powell, OH
Age:
37 Home page
Re: Boat-Pente
Posted:
Sep 9, 2007, 8:09 PM
> What I'm saying is that it doesn't make any > sense to have it be its own separate category in the > same way that D-pente or keryo is, because really the > difference is too small. In order for a game to have > its own separate rating and ranking system, i think > it needs to be different enough that you can't just > use your pente skills to get to 2000 easy, which is > exactly what I did.
I guess I don't understand why you feel so strongly that it is bad to have a separate rating for boat-pente. Yes there is most likely a strong correlation between pente skill and boat-pente, but so what? I fail to see why that is a problem, what is the harm? (I'm not saying there isn't a harm I just don't know what it is).
I have only played a couple of games of boat-pente but I can see how the rule twist CAN have a big impact. It is sort of like poof-pente in that sometimes the rule doesn't even matter. But other times it completely changes everything.
Both variants are fun for me, it is interesting after playing Pente for a number of years how you eventually just see things instantly on the board, but when you play these variants you sometimes feel like a beginner again and miss the obvious moves, it helps to stretch your brain a little.
Posts:
1,032
Registered:
Dec 16, 2001
From:
Powell, OH
Age:
37 Home page
Re: Boat-Pente
Posted:
Sep 15, 2007, 1:49 PM
Hey thanks for the info zemlyak. I thought I had heard of another game where the 'unperfect 5' as you call it, existed.
I think I had even implemented Ninuki-Renju long ago for this site but it was with a version of code that I scrapped. Maybe I'll have to bring it back.
