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Topic: Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Replies: 6   Views: 19,669   Pages: 1   Last Post: Nov 6, 2021, 6:00 AM by: watsu

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watsu

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Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Posted: Oct 29, 2021, 2:20 AM

I want to preface this by saying that rainwolf gave me his blessing to discuss this here if I wanted to and as a 20+ year member of this site and community the last thing I would want to do is draw traffic away from pente.org. This site and its players are an indispensable resource for learning pente and variants. With the addition of Pente (with variants) to the boardgamearena.com website, I believe we here have an excellent opportunity to teach other players how to improve their pente (and variants) games.

In the manual settings for Pente boards there, you can choose options like capture 3 (keryo) self capture enabled (poof, except 10-10 is a draw), disabled (normal capture rules) or forbidden (players aren't allowed to play a stone in a position which would result in a poof if self capture were enabled) overtime captures (boat) swap2, board size, multiplayer (without opening rules) and other options I haven't explored yet either singly or in combination. So, swap2 boat keryo is now a possiblity as is swap2 keryo, boat poof keryo we have here as O Pente. We are the experts at many of these variants and have a teaching and outreach opportunity for players there who would like to learn more about all of these games.


Message was edited by: watsu at Oct 30, 2021, 7:33 AM
additional information about the self capture variants and multiplayer added.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat

t0afer

Posts: 47
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 30
Re: Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Posted: Nov 1, 2021, 3:11 PM

The additions alone have warranted updates to the Pente Variant wiki page.

When I first started playing pente I didn't think it would be so amenable to variants, but they keep coming out of the wood works, and most of them are pretty good.

My first couple of Pente games on Board Game Arena have been swap2, 15x15, with boat rules.

I'd shied away from boat rules for awhile having not understood it very well, but I'm starting to see the potential for it.

I'm going to ask how difficult it would be to put forbidden moves into the game along with reallowing overline rules so that we can play Ninuki-Renju as well.

May as well throw it in as Pente's older brother. Maybe draw some interest from the Japanese Renju crowd who I believe still somewhat remember the game.

t0afer

Posts: 47
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 30
Re: Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Posted: Nov 1, 2021, 3:14 PM

I also think we should mention the forums, database, and community here as well to the BGA crowd if it starts growing.

I suspect the number of games will start to drop after it leaves beta and the beta testers move on (happens to most games since a lot of them are there to help out and not for pente), but games usually start to build a crowd after that.

watsu

Posts: 1,445
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Re: Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Posted: Nov 1, 2021, 3:57 PM

I did mention to the developer some suggested additions in order to make ninuki renju playable there. Apparently, an overlines don't win variant was in the alpha version, but it was creating issues in combination with other options, so it was left out of beta. As far as the no double threes and double fours rules, the developer has moved on to another project and isn't interested in coding renju rules. Even if nothing is changed at all, it's still a very valuable addition to online Pente. When someone with potential mentions they seem to have a blind spot, I just tell them to search for Pente and hammer or Pente and wedge. They'll find pente.org

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
t0afer

Posts: 47
Registered: Jan 7, 2021
Age: 30
Re: Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Posted: Nov 1, 2021, 4:11 PM

They always seem to "move-on" when the game is in beta. I guess I really have to get involved in the alpha build to make any recommendations.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but Ninuki-Renju didn't simply state overlines don't win, but forbid them, which would solve his irregularities problem where he had people capturing away from lines of 6 and creating pentes, potentially for both players, and causing draws.

Which to be honest I'm not really sure why that is a big problem anyway. Was it hard to declare it a simultaneous draw?

watsu

Posts: 1,445
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
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Re: Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Posted: Nov 1, 2021, 5:03 PM

Ninuki generally speaking (I believe there were house variants, so to speak) doesn't forbid overlines, because you can make a fifth capture across an overline to make it into a five and the game is then drawn. In boat, that scenario is a win for the player who has the 5. I can see how overlines don't win would be harder to code when you have variants like boat and poof which can be combined with it, since a player can technically play to either a five or an overine without immediately winning the game. But, I'm not a coder, so I don't really have an idea of how such things mess with each other in terms of combining different code combinations.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
watsu

Posts: 1,445
Registered: Dec 16, 2001
Home page
Re: Board game arena has Pente and variants in beta now
Posted: Nov 6, 2021, 6:00 AM

There was a "bug" in the implementation of "overtime captures enabled" (Boat Pente) which allowed a player to capture an entire Pente (maybe an overline too? IDK) by surrounding it. This is now an optional variant. In combination with captures don't win enabled, this variant could make for some pretty lengthy games. They would technically be winnable, but it might take a mistake or two by the other player to achieve a winning position. The board might well end up looking more like a Go board than a Pente board. Something to try for those who think Pente is too quick and easy, I guess.

Retired from TB Pente, but still playing live games & exploring variants like D, poof and boat
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