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Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 10, 2026, 1:10 AM
Tragedy's last rank was 1862. Your true rank should include your learning curve period like the rest of us. And build up from there. Not, jump in as a 20 year veteran and exploit provisional, to jump instantly 400 to 600 points higher than your original account obtained.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 10, 2026, 1:43 AM
You are comparing live rating to turn-based there right? 400 to 600 points is reasonable. Yours is a bit less, but mine is 500, and karlw's is over 500 for example.
The provisional rating system isn't something that can be exploited, anymore than the normal rating system can be.
As long as the accounts aren't active concurrently, I don't see anything wrong with alt accounts.
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Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 10, 2026, 3:04 AM
Personally, I think tragedy/madhippo is more or less deserving of his 2400 turn-based ratings (especially in Keryo). But I should point out that the Elo rating system very much can be exploited, and it has been done pretty much all throughout pente's history (and many other games, I'm sure). There are entire textbooks written on exactly what is necessary to ensure accurate rating and how easily rating can be manipulated/inflated if these guard rails aren't in place.
One easy path is to start with a fresh account, carefully select your early games to be against opponents who are weak enough that their chances of beating you are essentially zero, but strong enough to confer to you a decent amount of rating points in losing. This will give you an inflated rating, as the Elo formula depends on losses against stronger opposition as a balancing mechanism. Continue to protect your rating from this adjustment once it's established by playing very infrequently, always carefully choosing your opponents.
This is almost guaranteed to give an inflated rating, which will only converge to your true rating if you frequently play rated games against randomly chosen opponents of all rating levels.
It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
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Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 11, 2026, 5:59 AM
If i play a alt. They can see all my moves in the data base. I can not see theirs. This is unfair. And I do not know a alts actual skill level, or psychological tendencies. This is unfair. And I feel they end up with higher ratings then they would had gotten using original account, mean while I had to fight, struggle, and climb from the bottom with my account. This is unfair. We can agree to disagree is fine. Alts are generally bullshit in my opinion. I do think there are valid times to use an alt. Like playing unrated casually/drunk. Or trying to stay invisible on live tables while playing one on one with someone privately(unrated). Or playing rated vs another alt and sand bag them to teach them a lesson. There are morals and ethics with Alt usage. Basically, are you hurting others unfairly in some fashion or not.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 12, 2026, 3:17 AM
Karlw – sure, that all makes sense and looks reasonable. Seems to me that tragedy’s alts didn’t game the system, varied opponents and sufficient sets played.
Zoeyk – Thanks for the response. You have a good point about not seeing their games in the database. That is an advantage, more so at the top-level of play, so I've changed my opinion a bit on alts now. Although I don’t think you have a very good understanding of how elo works lol.
Also, do you have any evidence of him ever playing 2 accounts vs each other, or were you just making stuff up there?
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Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 12, 2026, 7:47 PM
By the way. Me and Karl are both guilty of entering tourneys at brainking using alt names, many years ago. If I recall it was for limits of tourneys or games under same account.
Also, I did have a alt here, boat_rules. Which i used to play boat pente with my step dad at the live tables. This was so people wouldn't disturb us while playing. I would get blown up with invites as zoeyk.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
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Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 12, 2026, 8:00 PM
Should we test your theory of alts? Im willing to bet, if i as an alt play karl, and other top players here, I would wreck everyone's stats, and jump my rating up to 2700 in 20 games flat.
Mumix refers to me as a sniper in pente. And he is not wrong. I tend to methodically target players.
This is not to be confused with my current tourney games, as karl might agree, im playing casual style. Especially with my P1. Using moves i am unfamiliar with.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
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Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 12, 2026, 8:14 PM
Ill note tempest, karl and I seem to agree that elo can be exploited. And you seem to also agree with Karl. But you also seem to disagree with me on elo.
Im unsure, but I feel like you are being competitive with me, in here. Why.
Scire hostis animum - Intelligere ludum - Nosce te ipsum - Prima moventur conciliat - Nolite errare
Re: some profiles disappeared
Posted:
Jul 12, 2026, 8:36 PM
In my opinion (and not to try and psychoanalyze you) – you think of elo as an achievement rather than simply an accurate measure of a player’s current skill level. I am not trying to say you shouldn’t be proud of your rating though. You suggested tragedy should intentionally throw games during his provisional period to land around 1675, then climb “properly” from there. That’s based on a misunderstanding of how provisional ratings work. Provisional ratings exist because the system has low confidence in a new player’s true strength, so it makes larger adjustments until it gathers enough data. Additionally, when playing against a provisional player, the opponent’s own rating changes less than normal (because the system trusts the provisional player’s rating even less). If tragedy deliberately sandbagged like that, he’d would reach roughly the same rating he would have anyway, while playing well below his real level (messing with other player’s elos).
Regarding testing my theory – I don’t care. My point is just that tragedy wasn’t doing that, as he had sufficient sets played on both his accounts (more than you).
Regarding me being competitive with you – I thought your comments were too harsh, and I found them annoying.
Edit: odd, I edited this earlier, but it reverted. Anyway, regarding testing my theory. You may hit 2700, but it wouldn't mess with other's elos! If you threw the first 20 sets, then challenged top players with your full strength (like you suggested to tragedy), that would mess with their elos.
Message was edited by: tempest10 at Jul 13, 2026, 12:26 AM
